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| SMS |
Posted by: ChrisS
Date Posted: September 4, 2010, 11:02am |
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The meeting minutes repeatedly mention contact from newcomers by SMS.
I have been involved recently in a problem with this and gave up without succeeding.
Because BT have recently introduced a 'text to speech' service, SMS sent to the local helpline numbers (not the 0845 number which rejects them) will report as being delivered. However, as most of the local numbers use call forwarding, the message isn't delivered in such a way that it can be responded to. It is possible to turn off this service for a particular number by phoning an automated service from the number in question. For the call forwarding services, there isn't a phone attached to the number called so it isn't possible to call from that number and hence it isn't possible to turn this service off. I'm sure that there is someone in BT who has access to the software/settings who could do this but I couldn't find him.
I have reported my efforts to my regional TLO who I'm sure has passed the problem on but it needs to be fixed. Many people don't realise that they can't send a text to any number. People sending a text to a local helpline number will appear to be ignored.
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The meeting minutes repeatedly mention contact from newcomers by SMS.
I have been involved recently in a problem with this and gave up without succeeding.
Because BT have recently introduced a 'text to speech' service, SMS sent to the local helpline numbers (not the 0845 number which rejects them) will report as being delivered. However, as most of the local numbers use call forwarding, the message isn't delivered in such a way that it can be responded to. It is possible to turn off this service for a particular number by phoning an automated service from the number in question. For the call forwarding services, there isn't a phone attached to the number called so it isn't possible to call from that number and hence it isn't possible to turn this service off. I'm sure that there is someone in BT who has access to the software/settings who could do this but I couldn't find him.
I have reported my efforts to my regional TLO who I'm sure has passed the problem on but it needs to be fixed. Many people don't realise that they can't send a text to any number. People sending a text to a local helpline number will appear to be ignored.
A new forum for Telephone Service has been set-up. Issues like these need further exploration and deserve to be separated from more controversial areas.
Chris S |
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The meeting minutes repeatedly mention contact from newcomers by SMS.
I have been involved recently in a problem with this and gave up without succeeding.
Because BT have recently introduced a 'text to speech' service, SMS sent to the local helpline numbers (not the 0845 number which rejects them) will report as being delivered. However, as most of the local numbers use call forwarding, the message isn't delivered in such a way that it can be responded to. It is possible to turn off this service for a particular number by phoning an automated service from the number in question. For the call forwarding services, there isn't a phone attached to the number called so it isn't possible to call from that number and hence it isn't possible to turn this service off. I'm sure that there is someone in BT who has access to the software/settings who could do this but I couldn't find him.
I have reported my efforts to my regional TLO who I'm sure has passed the problem on but it needs to be fixed. Many people don't realise that they can't send a text to any number. People sending a text to a local helpline number will appear to be ignored.
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...the wtf is crap. if you look for meetings by town, you can be very out of luck! London doesn't exist by town. one tiny area is all. not under london. nothing so simple. so i hunted, found them under intergroup, so yes they're there. all the london meetings. but where? under Town/City? no, london doesn't exist there. you have to know the area or the name of the meeting, like City, tho it doesn't say City of London, just City, then it shows the meetings. or you can find 3 under Bow, and so on. Abbeywood etc. there may be other places omitted, but I don't have time, or energy now, to check. hopefully just london, but how can our biggest area be missed out?...
18. The “email form” for notification of meetings changes, just defies description.
I e-mailed GSO about this (to the "email form" address) 2 weeks ago, and have just had an acknowledgement stating that "there are problems with the website". Incidentally, the e-mail was forwarded from the old BT Connect address.
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And the shop is still down (for the 8th day) and the film still doesn't work in IE (since the site was put live) and the Where to Find has not changed. Still, we are assured that the ECSC are very busy fixing the problems so they must be very serious if it takes this long to fix them.
By the way, have you all spotted that the members stories in the Newcomers Section are identical to the members stories in the Members Section?
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The shop is still down - seven days now - and the film on the Newcomers page has never worked in Internet Explorer. (It did on the old site). And we have the on-going problems with the Where to Find.
As far as I can see nothing has been fixed - even the copyright information is still wrong.
A letter along the lines you suggest is urgently needed. I would act, but suspect anything from me would be dismissed as coming from one of the bleeding deacons. Have you decided what you are going to do yet?
Yes, I'm writing a letter, taking a bit of time as a few commitments needs addressing first. I should have done it by the weekend and
bounced it over to my regional RECLO for proofing etc.I'll keep this board in touch with the progress.
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Thanks Chris, I also missed WTF unuseable for 5 days after launch.
Thinking of copying leter to Chairman, Trustee, all IG/Regional chairs and all RECLOs/ECLOs plus publishing on here as an open letter,
however I am going to take advice from my Regional RECLO before I do anything.
The shop is still down - seven days now - and the film on the Newcomers page has never worked in Internet Explorer. (It did on the old site). And we have the on-going problems with the Where to Find.
As far as I can see nothing has been fixed - even the copyright information is still wrong.
A letter along the lines you suggest is urgently needed. I would act, but suspect anything from me would be dismissed as coming from one of the bleeding deacons. Have you decided what you are going to do yet?
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Quoted Text
• Design of the New Web facility: A team was put together to determine a specification for the new site, to ensure this was fit for this purpose. This was then professionally produced to enable it to be put out to tender and three bids were considered.
This then is the 'cabal'. Who put the team together? who was on the team? what was the remit? what did they report and recommend? Let's see this 'professionally produced' specification. The language seems to suggest that some professional consultant was paid to produce the spec., so let's see it.
Quoted Text
• The service provisions such as server hardware and software will be maintained externally but all of the content will belong to, and will be maintained and updated internally by AA under the direction of GSO and the ECSC.
In other words, the ECSC no longer has direct control over the server, as it used to have, but will always need to work through these developers. A retrograde step in my opinion.
Quoted Text
The new site will allow us to analyse the traffic we get on site, but we still need to ensure that people find us in the first place.
This seems to suggest that the old website didn't have reporting software. It did, Webalizer, Analog, and several others. What happened was that the trustee stopped reporting on website usage and statistics after 2007. No problem with the website facilities, just human decisions (misjudgements). And of course those statistics will now have to be obtained from the developers, perhaps at extra cost. |
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Just to clarify - I am not resistant to change - there has never been any question that the appearance of the website was due for an update.
What the Board do not appear to understand is that the original site design was put in place before the widespread adoption of broadband - glitzy graphics on dial-up are not very impressive. Those days are now past - and whilst there are a few people left on dial-up the vast majority have more than enough bandwidth to accommodate a more graphical approach.
Another major design principle was keep it simple - we tried to stick with straightforward html wherever possible, and only resorted to JavaScript and php when absolutely necessary. Databases were mainly flat text (easy to maintain), although MySQL was used where a relational design was required. The whole point was to make it easy for our successors - and to ensure that a high level of technical skill was not a prerequisite to help maintain the site.
The implied suggestion in the minutes that the original members of the web-team are opposed to change and are bleeding deacons is deeply offensive. John S and his team should be ashamed! Perhaps if they had taken some technical advice at the outset the new site might have been ready much earlier, and might actually have worked.
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• The new website will be much more in the hands of the Fellowship, not in the hands of one or two people who may assume they have power and control of all AA web related issue.. Thus safeguarding the service from possible bleeding deacon syndrome
Quoted Text
1988 New York Times (Feb. 21) “The Changing World of Alcoholics Anonymous” p. 6-40: “If anything is going to destroy A.A.,” says Dr. John Norris, a nonalcoholic physician, friend of Bill Wilson’s and for many years chairman of A.A.‘s board of trustees, “it will be what I call the ‘tradition lawyers.’ They find it easier to live with black and white than they do with gray. These ‘bleeding deacons’—these fundamentalists—are afraid of and fight any change.”
In case, like me, you didn't get the reference.
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......The new website will be much more in the hands of the Fellowship, not in the hands of one or two people who may assume they have power and control of all AA web related issue.. Thus safeguarding the service from possible bleeding deacon syndrome......
What? But it is in the hands of one or two people. And the code is now so complex that it will be very difficult to find volunteers willing to give the time and effort necessary to understand the over-complex design. What should have been straightforward database queries have been made into complex JavaScript in-line code indexes.
I note they intend to transfer email, file-store, and the local sites to the new servers. If they cannot make the shop work - if the where-to-find searches are unreliable - if they cannot make a simple video work in IE - what hope have they of getting these extras to work?
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The following official minutes are now being circulated by Alistair. I have made one or two minor formatting changes to suit the forum, and omitted such items as welcomes & serenity prayers.
RECLO/ECSC Meeting : 13th August 2010, 5.30pm
Present: Peter C., (East London IG) Mike W. (North West Region), Peter W. (South East Region), Gus H. (East of Scotland Region) , Simon C,(Scotia) Wullie I.(South West Scotland Region), Chris B. (North Herts IG), Gerry Mac (Glasgow Region), Pat M.(Highlands and Islands Region), Alistair M.(ECSC) , John S. (ECSC) - Chairman, Nigel P. (ECSC)
• Nigel introduced the new website. Some areas have been changed and adapted to reflect a more anglicised view of the Fellowship in the UK and to become more politically aware- changing “him” to “her” on occasion.
• Input has been received from health, PI, Prisons and the Armed Services- further input is needed from all service areas and should be encouraged.
• The front page has not changed in principal design since Mari presented it at the previous meeting or at conference 2010 . John reminded all present that the ECSC both past and current, are all voluntary workers giving freely and extensively of their time energy and best effort unstintingly. That non are employed as professionals, but are appointed through the service structure. Consequentley they should not be subjected to unreasonable or spiteful criticism from any quarter, there is no justification for such behaviour.
• The whole site has a more modern, consistent look and feel. There are four separate areas. The newcomers area has stories – old and new content. Information for professionals has been radically reworked. Though more work is still required The Member’s area is now themed in to Recovery, Service and Unity, with the emphasis on Service as with the previous Member’s area.
• Constructive feedback is welcomed on other areas, directed through John S. in the first instance. John emphasised the fact that the main purpose of the New web site was to fulfill our Primary Purpose os staying sober and helping others to achieve sobriety
• AA email, Regional websites and File Storage will remain on the old system for the short term but will be copied over to the new website in the long term. The File Storage area is used to disseminate information, and is not to be assumed as a secure backup for files.
• There is a new restyled shop which still takes PayPal but may switch to merchant bank account in the future. There is only need to login in order to make your first purchase - after that you can use the same login for subsequent purchases. The online shop continues to make an increasing return year on year. Amazon purchases can decrease the money AA receives from literature and at the last check were charging more for books.
• The new website will be much more in the hands of the Fellowship, not in the hands of one or two people who may assume they have power and control of all AA web related issue.. Thus safeguarding the service from possible bleeding deacon syndrome
• A postcode search is now possible on the new website – hopefully all the postcodes are now entered in the correct field after Nigel corrected them. The process relies on meetings providing the correct postcode information to GSO, this being done via the pink form/online process.
• It was stated that one member desisted from using the forum due to the confrontational approach of some of the forum users. John S stated that the forums should be used to carry the message, not usurp the Conference process. We are trusted servants and volunteers and such work takes a lot of time. Confrontation merely takes us away from that process. It is the job of the GSB to manage the website and any reports will be given to conference when it is deemed appropriate.
• Dave, chairman of the board stated that the board wants a website that will serve the needs of the fellowship now and in the future. The board will respond to letters but not on the forum. The web is the most fundamental means of communication, principally outside of the fellowship and as a means of providing general information for those within the fellowship with a particular interest In service or general information such as Share Roundabout AA Service News Meetings / events Calendar or similar issue
• Design of the New Web facility : A team was put together to determine a specification for the new site , to ensure this was fit for this purpose. This was then professionally produced to enable it to be put out to tender and three bids were considered.. The winning bidder was paid £15,000 up front and £15,000 upon completion. Solicitors exercised due diligence in reviewing the contract submitted by the company chosen. Cost cutting issues were negotiated and were raised with the board, were seen as a crucial activity. The contract has come in well below the provisional budget cost despite only £600 extra being paid out.
• Some of the delays have been due to a lack of resource and consequently, Nigel being overworked and this was further exacerbated by our inability to populate pages with relevant and updated content.
• The service provisions such as server hardware and software will be maintained externally but all of the content will belong to , and will be maintained and updated internally by AA under the direction of GSO and the ECSC.
PART 2
• The forums will reopen soon (a few days) with hopefully some more positive posts.
• The Role of the RECLO: This was covered in the previous meeting. It doesn’t have to be technically based – it can be information management. Liaison is the most critical element – ensuring AA members in your area are aware of what it available to them. Keeping the WTF up to date is the Group Secretary’s responsibility and they need to make sure they tell GSO as well as advising any local systems in place.
• Training will be taking place for GSO staff soon regarding uploads to the various area’s including WTF Documents Library Calendar etc..
• GSO has security concerns regarding how the information is stored, especially with contact phone numbers included. Checks also need to be in place to ensure the validity of the information that GSO are receiving. The biggest problem for accuracy of the WTF is still human error though- ECLOs can help by checking that the local and National WTFs tally up. Also RECLOs can ensure that their local sites adhere to Guideline 19 and notifying the webteam to flag up issues.
• The ORS needs more eResponders – there are only 12 at present from four different regions. Barry has presentations the RECLOs can use and full training is given to new responders. Barry is unable to attend the meeting due to sickness. He is very committed though. There has been a 30,000 drop in 0845 calls but only a small increase in email. iPhone emails are on the increase and these can apparently receive only a small reply as a matter of course, though there is a way of receiving longer replies on the phone. There may be an increased volume of enquiries from healthcare in the future due to changes in practice. States for June and July were circulated.
• It was also noted that SMS messaging was on the increase particularly with younger persons. It was suggested that this might be monitored to see if the trend continues to the point where it may be another point of contact for potential AA newcomers.
• Pat made the point that ORS and Electronic Communications need to be more prominent at Intergroup and Region level. It was suggested that a Question for Conference could be formulated around this issue.
RECLO Meeting 14th August 2010 9.00am – 10.15am
There was a query for July 2010 ORS Stats- AA Minor and Alanon stats seem to be the wrong way round in the June 2010 column.
SWOT Analysis (Strengths, weaknesses, Opportunities and threats)
Strengths: The ORS Stats show a clear indication of usage, more than telephones are able to.
Also, with regard to the website, if you search for “Alcoholics Anonymous”, our page appears at the top of the rankings, partly because so many people are linking to us. However, it slightly depends on what you search for- we do not appear on a search for “Rehab” for example. It is hard to make inroads to this without overly promoting the site.
A Weakness can also be that newcomers are now turning up to meetings independently using the online WTF, bypassing the 12 step call. Strong sponsorship is also imperative with regards to 12 step calls.
Strengths: The new site will allow us to analyse the traffic we get on site, but we still need to ensure that people find us in the first place. Are we doing the best we can to allow people to find us within the Traditions? Pay per click sites appear at the top of the page with Google. It also brings up the issue of other domains similar to ours (aa.org.uk for example) should be reviewed and possibly be removed by Nominet. Maybe we could explore Pay Per Click for next year. Blogs and external sites could link to our site which would also thus boost our rankings. John suggested all of these items could bring us into conflict with the Traditions. In that it could be construed as promotion or being in competition. He pointed out engaging and competing with other sites is not necessarily healthy and Bill W. wrote how we do not compete with others in the field of alcoholism. AA is also often considered a last resort and people are ready when they are ready.
People are generally more aware of AA – it is on TV a lot more, etc.
In any census we could put in a question about “how people find AA”. There was a general feeling that we could obsess too much about the minutiae of how people find us. Clearly people are finding AA through the website and other means- maybe we should make it clear that people should ring first before turning up directly to a meeting or to turn up early to talk to people first. This maybe needs to be highlighted in the Service area- that people greet newcomers as they may not have had telephone contact first. Newcomers may feel that the web is more of an “official” source of information rather than face to face- but AA is founded on face to face, one alcoholic talking to another.
A skype link could be possible on the website so someone could chat or IM on skype, though again; this is still not face to face.
RECLO’s feel that they have few means of communication with each other, with the webteam or with the ECSC to ask for advice. RECLOs can use the forums constructively to communicate to each other and to use the forums as intended. GSO need to be informed that RECLOs and ECLOs are in post by their Intergroup/Region.
It is possible to email ECSC with questions.
John suggested that conference calls might help to alleviate some of these issue, and undertook to investigate the possibility of extending this facility to RECLO’s By discussion with the GSB and including Time and Date on the Calendar of events.
The Forums are a strength but are not being used properly. Also we can use conferencing to communicate. ECSC meets monthly by conference call.
There has been no information from the ECSC for a year. There are four members of the ECSC – Barry A, Nigel P, John S and Alistair M. Mike W applied for membership of the ECSC and heard nothing for six months so withdrew the application. John S. will chase up why Mike’s application was not put throughThis was done between meetings and whilst no specific explanation was available at the time . Mike was asked to resubmit his application for a position
The ECSC will need to continue to steer the website. The ECSC will need to continue to steer the website. Forum Admins and Moderators are kept anonymous.
These need to be used to encourage questions and answers on service issue with a view to encouraging members to participate in the wide varierty of service activities within the fellowship
Online telephone systems as a way of contacting AA will be explored.
A list of contact details for all RECLOs and ECSC will be circulated to all. These are currently contained in the confidential directory, albeit they can be emailed from GSO as a complete update every 3months if necessary. Providing emails address are received at time of notification of appointment.
We need to continuously review emerging trends and use of technologies, such as SMS which the younger element of society are using more extensively every day.
A proposal was made, so as to improve communications, with the ECSC, to hold an additional telephone or Skype conferencing meeting with RECLO and ECLO , this was briefly discussed and will be discussed with the full GSB executive, but was provisionally agreed and a date would be allocated on the GSB Calendar.
The Regional sites will be restricted to HTML and CMS.
It has been felt a worthwhile meeting. Feedback on the website will be welcomed.
Addendum note (observation):
Having circulated a preliminary copy of S.W.O.T. Analysis the previous evening , it was observed there had been a tendency to labour the point on more technical issue initially ie SEO.
Hopefully this will be resolved after the site has been running for a reasonable period, and when the web facility has become fully operational, this process might be more useful in identifying S.W.O.T. in pursuit of our primary purpose.
Joint Electronic Communications and Telephone Meeting 14th August 2010, 10.30am
The RECLOs will work closely with RTLOs to ensure that ECLOs and TLOs can access the File Storage area for Telephones.
“Squirrels” are eResponders. TLOs use the file storage to get stats etc. The new website has just gone live and there is no requirement to register as a member at present. It can be accessed at http://www.aa-files.org.uk. The telephone login is “Telephone3” and “password” is whoopee to view files. These are used for archiving and information sharing. The file store area is not a secure backup. The transition to the new server may not transfer all the files, though we endeavour to. Nigel will ask for the ability to upload batches of files – maybe five at a time. Also a search facility will be implemented. The point was made that files and folders should be clearly named to help users to find things. Information from the file storage should be printed and disseminated so that those without computers can still access the information. A user guide will be written to allow people to access the file store area consistently.
If you require a file store area or need to change passwords – email filemaster@alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk
The user guide will be disseminated to all that need it.
A discussion of the ORS service was discussed- responses to emails from newcomers, emails regarding meetings etc. Stats are produced. 10- 20 emails per shift are received. Those who have done telephone service are ideally placed to do ORS. The ORS is short of people –it is ideal for those who are less confident on the phone. Full training is also given. If you would like to apply, use the “Contact Us” page on the website. 12 months sobriety and endorsement by Intergroup is required.
There was a discussion about possibly combining RECLO and RTLO. Unfortunately it implies that those who are TLOs would also need to be computer literate.
As well as a shortage of Telephone Responders and ORS Responders, there can also be a lack of 12 steppers, which the group is responsible for. AA Service News is our service communication tool though it is not the responsibility of GSO to dictate to groups, it should be the other way around. Members here can take it back to their areas though.
Stats for ORS can be forwarded to Telephones for their file store area.
A good way of recruiting is at the group level. Maintenance of the 12 step list can become a specific job at intergroup. Enthusiasm grows for service from those who are doing it, talk about it and are enthusiastic about it. Promoting AA Service news is also important.
A suggestion was made that a national 12 step list is compiled though there are issues of confidentiality. A question for conference will be put forward asking if the groups should be specifically responsible for telephone responders, electronic responders and 12 steppers. Something like: “Would conference share their experience of...” Background information in terms of the decline in 12 step calls would help the question. Experience around the country can then be shared from areas which are stronger. Peter C. will take responsibility for composing a question.
Information out of context can cause unrest – there are channels in place to communicate things appropriately to enable us to move forward. As trusted servants, we are directly responsible to those we serve via the service structure to – the fellowship as a whole, not individual members.
A consensus has been reached by the RTLOs and TSC that only the National Number would be disseminated, with more stations around the country to intercept the mobile calls which are misdirected.,
Note Nigel as a former BT Computer Engineer, stated that the introduction of more call receptor centres may not necessarily address the issue of misdirected calls, which are received and redirected by computer from a centralised computer system
A list of Regional identified local service numbers is produced to assist responders to redirect calls.
Gavin has a Panasonic telephone system available for a telephone service.
All new documentation produced by GSO should have the AA help email address on it too. The website will also need to be amended to ensure people are clear that the 0845 number – mobile call costs may vary.
All requests for changes to website should be passed through, the Electronics Communications Trustee
The website has a diary of liaison meetings.
Consideration need to be made for teachers who are notable to take time out during weekday term times. This meeting should happen again at the same time next year, with confirmation of October. |
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Roland, I was not commenting on what you said at all, but was actually refering back to what thebarron said...
I didn't realise that as you quoted his comment to me
Didn't intend to cause any offence and I apologize if you read something into my comment that wasn't intended. I was actually in agreement with your analysis about the unnecessary complexity of the new WTF user interface.
I can follow that logic 
I didn't expect that there was any offence meant, the chosen quoted text puzzled me.
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I agree entirely with Roland's comments on the WTF. Accepting that the basic information is horribly innaccurate, the way it is handled appears poor, to say the least. Interestingly, I have just done a Post Code search for my own Post Code (no day specified) and it found 45 meetings within a 20 mile radius. If all meetings had their Post Codes listed on the WTF (as they do on our local lists) that would have been at least 100 meetings - 15+ per day! Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. The accuracy of the information (including Post Code) is not the province of this discussion, but its' presentation in the database ought to be - i.e. what is the Town? Manchester or Salford, for instance. At the moment GSO dutifully transcribe the information provided to them by group secretaries with no consideration given to database field analysis. This also applies to all the information referred to by Roland when he speaks of advanced features.
Another very serious issue is the design of the WTF itself. The page that loads when you select the WTF is 12,000 lines long, and contains in embedded form all the data required. It is NOT loaded from a database (the page is conceivably generated from one off-line, although that would be significantly more difficult than running the queries from an SQL database), and there is no evidence anywhere of the page being generated at run-time).
As an experiment I copied the source of the page into an HTML editor, blocked all external links, and then ran the page (my HTML editor let you preview the page, and execute the code). All inquiries worked - I could get listings of meetings just as if it was the on-line version. I have looked in detail at this code - it will be very tricky to maintain - adding a meeting will be a major task (unless, of course, CIM have come up with a wonder CMS which facilitates the task - but I doubt it).
This frightens me. Whilst I have relatively little coding experience, and certainly have never used Cold Fusion, I suspect that this is appalling design. The database is already poor - as has been pointed out above, the original WTF was maintained as a formal database accessed by the site, whereas GSO maintained an Excel spreadsheet, and the two don't (didn't?) always agree. How on earth are GSO going to maintain this? Again, I have no user knowledge of Cold Fusion, but it is not advertised as having a strong CMS facility, in the sense that Dreamweaver/Communicator has. |
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Roland, I was not commenting on what you said at all, but was actually refering back to what thebarron said...
Quoted Text
Hi on phone service again and had a call from a newcomer who said the WTF was too confusing for him, I didn't go into that
just sorted a meeting for him.
Didn't intend to cause any offence and I apologize if you read something into my comment that wasn't intended. I was actually in agreement with your analysis about the unnecessary complexity of the new WTF user interface. |
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It's a pity it isn't what that newcomer needed...
If you feel my comments/suggestions aren't in line with what a newcomer or telephone responder needs, post your own.
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Thanks Roland just what I needed.
It's a pity it isn't what that newcomer needed... |
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| Thanks Roland just what I needed. |
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The standard WTF search page has three independent search options on it. It should only have one. I found it obvious that there are three options (as a techie), someone I showed it to didn't see that.
The Region/Intergroup search should be moved onto another page. It is useful for Intergroup/Region Treasurers and Secretaries but is of no use to a newcomer. As meetings aren't obliged to choose the 'correct' Intergroup for their location it is also of little use to find a meeting in an area.
The postcode search is of little current use because it only shows meetings which have a postcode, most don't. Using it can give the false impression that there are no or few meetings in an area. The intent of the search is a good one but this issue needs to be resolved before it is presented.
Some, if not all, of the Advanced Search options should be moved onto the main search page. I can see the sense of moving the more confusing options onto a 'hidden' area but coupling that with the confusing three search options on the main page contradicts the intent.
The use of some of the advanced fields isn't intuitive. The description field contains meeting time and disabled access details rather than a description that people would expect it to contain. Entering 'closed' in the 'Open or Closed' box returns no meetings.
The WTF needs to be more prominent on the web site. A single big button on the home page, none of this '3 clicks to information' nonsense.
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Hi on phone service again and had a call from a newcomer who said the WTF was too confusing for him, I didn't go into that
just sorted a meeting for him.
OK Question: apart from meetings not listed and meetings giving wrong info, what are the problems with the WTF, I find as a techy
I miss some of the usability features and concentrate on the technical issues, so I am just looking for your average Joe's impression
if anyone has the time to post a few comments it would help.
Thanks
Chris |
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According to montastic.com, the official website was down for an over an hour last night between 23:41 and 00:51. Your time of 11:24 is probably right because I think montastic only checks every 15 mins or 30 mins.
Hmm... didn't the previous trustee give the need for a more reliable server as one of the reasons for the new website project? And to go from running our own server with full root access to being a guest on somebody else's hosting package with access only through a CMS is, well, very inappropriate. GSO should have contracted it's own hosting package and given access as appropriate to any developers. This will end badly. |
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Back up again now!!!!!!!!!
Note it is hosted on IP 80.82.141.157 which Reverse DNS = yorkmnet.ymn.net
ymn.net was down too also the domain ymn.net expires on 24th September 2010 I hope someone is keeping their eyes open. |
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| Currently the New site is down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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The shop is still down - it has now been at least six days since it was available. And the film still does not work in Internet Explorer. The less said about the where to find the better. The garbage has not been improved.
On the old site the only time the shop wasn't available is when the whole site was down for longer than an hour - which happened on just two occasions - once due to a DNS problem (resolved within 24 hours) and once due to a hardware failure at Tektonic, also resolved with 24 hours (and it was not the disaster painted by the Trustee as justification for a new site).
Perhaps the time has now come for the Board to admit defeat, and restore a system that actually works and has better than 99% uptime. |
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Certainly the things that ECSC/GSO/GSB seem to be withdrawing from—if others want them. Email might be a good example since I'm aware that the service hasn't been good recently with members waiting weeks to get an address assigned to them, and now there isn't even a description on the new site of that service. I've got several domains registered that could be used, aa-email.org, anonymous-alcoholics.org, and a very, very cheeky one that should only be used by members without ambitions to become a trustee or a member of a GSB subcommittee... but I'll let you guess what that might be! 
I'm interested in trying to do something that might draw the online world closer to the face-to-face service structure since they seem to operate in entirely different worlds and mostly ignore each other. I've been involved with online groups since 1993 (the MoM group, recognized as a group by our GSB in 1994) and finding a common meeting point is one of those issues that hasn't been properly resolved. And, strangely enough, those involved in online service are quite often involved in online sobriety via an online group so there are more people around than you might at first think who can build a bridge across that divide.
So here's an idea, a service/sobriety magazine that takes articles from both sides of the divide. Newcomers explaining how an online group helped them, or oldtimers explaining the basics of acting as an Intergroup secretary, and how about an article about setting up a mailing list for use by Intergroup members (and others becoming interested in service) or for use as an online meeting. Cost? £0, produced in pdf format and distributed by mailing list. That's something that I'd like to be involved in. It's never been done, and the articles about the traditional service structure could be a bit more open and frank than the sort of uninformative articles I often see in Service News. |
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We now know the deficiencies in the official site, some of which may be fixed, many will not.
So where do we take this site? How can we plug the gaps?
Some things we cannot do - if for no other reason than copyright or practicality. For example, we cannot put the newcomers film up - even if we know we could make it work in all known browsers. Nor is it practical to create and maintain a new where to find - even though we know we could set up a proper database and make the thing work properly. We could not collate the base data and maintain it - it needs GSO input.
Apart from that we could do anything. Noticeboards, Email, Local Hosting, Mailing Lists, RECLO/ECLO database, to name just a few. But its down to what YOU want to see. So lets have some ideas - we can put them to a vote if appropriate.
And please spread the word about this site among your fellow members (particularly anyone in service in your group, intergroup or region who uses the website) about this site. We need as much input and as many users as possible.
Chris S |
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The document library is worse than the old one.
Showing the 10 most recently added files is partly a good idea. It doesn't quite work partly because all of the upload dates have been altered and partly because there is no 'next 10 ' facility. There won't often be more than 10 at a time but I expect there are more than 10 items of Conference background material at the same time. When that happens, the only way to find the next 10 will be to look at every directory. I find it a lot more difficult to navigate than the old one (which was less than perfect).
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I talked a little with Nigel about the WTF and providing a unified access to it, turns out this web based one is separate from the GSO one so the sequence is: a request for change comes in (somehow), GSO update theirs, then tell Nigel (webmaster or someone) Website gets updated, Nigel (or someone) going to provide a means of Local sites to access it (perhaps maybe) what could posibly go wrong with that? Apart from that another identical (ish) database is being maitained at GSO in excel format for TLOs etc.
The old website (the one that works properly) was setup such that GSO updated the database within the website when they got a pink form, either in the mail or by electronic means. The website displayed the data directly from the database, as up to date as GSOs update. Need I say more?
The shop still doesn't work - the where to find doesn't work properly and will always be hopelessly out of date (to add a meeting will be a major task due to the complexity of the underlying code) - the video doesn't work in Internet Explorer (any flavour, it seems) - and a host of useful (nay, essential) features have been eliminated.
Another item for the list of dropped facilities is the Parliamentary Database used by the PI Sub-Committee, which enabled on-line Registration for the annual PI meeting at the Palace of Westminster. Just thrown away.
The sooner the General Service Board realise what a shambles the new site is, the better. Then they might make the only possible decision - revert to the old site. And write off £30,000 of the money you and the rest of us members put in the pot each week. |
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| Opera behaves the same as IE6/7/8 with the mailto: but it does play the Video |
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I thought I would submit a few of the New website pages to a validation service (via Opera)
home page - 52 errors, newcomers page - 43 errors, meetings page 22 errors & 208 warnings:
I'm not going to bother with the rest. |
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